On the Scene in Dharamsala

The Dalai Lama is exhausted and tired. Considering the position he occupies in Buddhism and Tibetan society, he has done a good job, but not achieved anything much for Tibet. Could a secular leader have done any better? We'll never know. Should the Tibetan Government in Exile now be run by a secular person? I think so. http://desicritics.org/2008/11/14/064938.php

We should leave the question about who should lead the Tibetans to the Tibetans, unless the Chinese wants the US to decide who should lead the Chinese.

And, of course, Tibet is an unalienable part of China, blah, blah, blah...

Mr. Ramzy,
I wish you guys hadn't switched to a new host for this blog. Ever since you guys have done so it seems that much of the ethnonationalists have stopped posting comments. I miss reading some of the posted ethnonationalist comments when I post my own comments.

johnsmith9876:
Refusing to be Chinese is the choice, and of course a legal right, of Tibetans, who lived in Dharamsala. However, since they refusing to be Chinese, then they have no right to determine anything at all about Tibet, which is internationlly recognized as a part of China.

Given the power and influnce of China, the so-called "Free Tibet" is a LOSSING game. For your own goodness, do not be the loser of this game.

bookevil: I do understand that, as far as Chinese are concerned, winning means being in power and money, and only being in power and money. There is no other consideration. However, other people may have higher aspirations that no Chinese can understand, like keeping onese culture alive. What Chinese call `loosing` may not be any loss to Tibetan at all.

Official in charge of propaganda in Tibet was fired for hackers hacking into her computer and grab government documents.

http://tinyurl.com/5j2grm

Were all these leaked documents behind Dalai giving up on negotiating with the CCP

jobnsmith9876:
Your logic is a mess, which may be applied to your mind as well.
Your bias or even discrimination against Chinese gets you no where. You were trying to convert people here that Chinese only cares about money and power. How could it be much sillier? Take me as a example. I have worked and lived in US for a few years. Anything happening in China will not take any single dollar out of my payroll. However, like so many other oversea Chinese, I still spend here time on defending China for anything, which it should not be critized. Do you really believe that we can get money for that?

"Tibetan culture is being killed by Chinese" is another weird logic, which you are fully convinced. No one is accusing of anyone for the fact that younger American generations keep themseleves further and further from church, which was such a symbol of western culture. When the more educated Tibetan teens become less religous just like the American teens, it is used by DL as a crucial evidence aganist the so-called CCP's culture genocide. DL would not admit that he is not lossing Tibet to CCP, but to a general tendency of human history.

John Smith,

I sometimes don't know whether I should take your tongue-in-cheek jokes seriously. But you made an interesting point. Thanks.

Meanwhile, you may care to check out this: http://forums.phayul.com/index.php?showtopic=9160

[...] to John Smith at the Time China Blog for the tips.  You are not as tongue-in-cheek as I had previously [...]

Let see what HI (His Idiot) Dailai wants.
1. Redraw the map of China including 5 provinces and call it greater Tibet. That involves 25% of landmass of China
2. Give the total control of that area to a bunch of idiots like DL who were created by CIA and still supported financially by foreigners with sole purpose of weakening China. They would decide where and who are allowed to travel and live in that area in the name of preserving Tibetan culture. There are other ethic minority who has been living in that area for more than a thousands years. Do they have to go too? That is an ethic cleansing to its core.
3. DL and his group will have total control of mineral right of that area. It means American/European companies will be given priority over Chinese companies. Isn't that interesting.
4. DL and his group will have a so-called a democratic election within that area.
How does Beijing government explain all this to the 1.3 billions people that they are not allowed to travel or live in 25% of the country because DL said so. How can 5 millions Tibetans have a public election that 1.3 billions Chinese cannot have.
Is that any guarantee that there would not be any violence after DL returns? On the contrary, I think it would only get worse as DL tries to push non-Tibetan out of the area.
How about the other religious sect within the Tibetan people? If they say or do something that DL does not like, they will be murdered. That is what happened to a small sub-sec of his followers in India. Read the following link for detail. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sOm-uQH9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1dILwsmwCQ&feature=related
http://china.blogs.time.com/2008/11/21/on-the-scene-in-dharamsala/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC-F6VUyGZM&feature=related
Tibet will be turned into Bosnia or Congo in no time.
In order to preserve the power of his group, DL is looking for a way to appoint the next DL while he is still alive. That will destroy the core of Tibetan religious and culture heritage. I just wonder who is committing cultural genocide. Globalization and western culture has a bigger impact on the daily life of ordinary Tibetan people.Wait until McDonalds and Star Buck set up shops in Lhasa. LOL
DL calls his proposal a concession to full independence.
I call it a ridiculous demand while HI (His Idiot) DL has no bargaining power to speak of except instigating riot periodically.
Do you think Beijing should give up sovereignty of 25% of her landmass to a bunch of idiots while receive nothing back in return.
The basic problem of this Tibetan issue is that a lot of Tibetans inside and outside China has a illusion that after DL returns, they can chase non-Tibetan out of the area and they will be the richest person in the world. That is smilar to the belief of Muslims and Christians who are still waiting for the return of their savior after 2,000 years. Wishful thinking does have some power and influence on human minds. However, it does not make a reality.
I think Tibetans will succeed when Hawaiians have their country back and kick out all settlers in order to preserve their culture and heritage.

Hello,
I just read the newest article “A Generation Gap in Tibet's Royal Family” by Jyotti Thottam. I have my doubts about this royal nephew Khedroop Thondop whether he can represent the Tibetans at all and how much he understands the Tibetan culture himself. As we know that new generations of overseas Chinese who are born outside China and grow up in the West do not fully understand the Chinese culture other than such as the New Year red-envelopes, Dragon dance and moon cakes, how can the overseas Tibetan youth be fully infused with the genuine Tibetan culture without drinking the local water and yak-milk tea for years?

And, Austin,
Could you please report what the Tibetans in Beijing think about the same issue? Many such Tibetans are new “royalties” of the Tibet. They may be “brainwashed” by the CCP thinking differently from the Dalai Lama, but they are still Tibetans. Thank you.

I just wonder how 250k of oversea Tibetans can take away 25% of landmass from China with population of 1.3 billions and nuclear weapons, and become an independent nation. Have they ever think it though.

Perpetual hymn of an open book.

Like an iced
dream my mind
disappears in
the heart of
an innocent
nurse, when a
clamour appears
and a delicate
blackbird discovers
a glimmer.

Francesco Sinibaldi

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/forum/view/1433/Hello-my-dear-/2/

"No one is accusing of anyone for the fact that younger American generations keep themseleves further and further from church, which was such a symbol of western culture."

Ah, another good application of the rule that any wrong doing in US is good excuse for China atrocities. I congratulate you on your great achievement in application of this great way to save face.

Harmony with Chinese characteristics:

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20081122_09.jpg
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20081122_03.jpg
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20081122_21.jpg
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20081122_08.jpg
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20081122_10.jpg
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20081122_11.jpg

As you can see, the PSB troops were attacked by the lawless protesters and tried to defend themselves.

sing666, I think overseas Tibetans (plus an unknown number of Tibetans and Han Chinese within the PRC) are pointing out what they think is wrong with the way Beijing is ruling Tibet. With or without the capability of taking something away, people can speak their minds, as long as they don't get locked away.
Enjoy the internet, and enjoy free speech. It can be very informative.

Yes indeed it is free speech. You can say what you want. But what does empty promises can do for the Tibetans inside China. Encouraging riot periodically would do more harm than good. HI DL just hardened his line against the Chinese Government. That is all he can do. These shows he put up is for the consumption of Westerners and he forgets about 1.3 billions ordinary Chinese whose stomach got turned upside down after March riot and the ensuing reaction by DL himself and the western media. Does 1.3 billions Chinese count to anything in this matter? Nobody here even debate agianst my accusation that the HI DL is a murderous dictator in a monk suit. What good could that be if he the Holy Idiot ever achieves what he wants. Just as the Iraq war, everybody was predicting that the war was easy and clean, and sadly nobody was prepared for the aftermath. In this independent movement of Tibet, getting there is difficult enough. Does anybody think of the aftermath if they ever succeed. Political slogan is good for TV, not for real life.

I think if the PRC government gets things right about Tibet, the Dalai Lama will either be back in Tibet, or he won't matter any more. But "Western consumption of the Dalai Lama shows" wouldn't hurt you. What seems to hurt you is that he is listened to in Tibet just as well - despite the fact that he has no way to force his ideas on others.
This isn't a mere matter between China and the West, as you'd like to have it. The Dalai Lama lives in India.
There is no use in going from arrogance (I just wonder how 250k of oversea Tibetans can take away 25% of landmass from China with population of 1.3 billions and nuclear weapons) to self-pity (Does 1.3 billions Chinese count to anything in this matter?). China's atomic arsenal will probably secure China's territorial integrity. But it won't make the governments policy on Tibet respectable. You can't have everything.

Just like the foreign policy of GW and his war on terrorism, it was for the national interest for the country, not to win popular contest. Why is it so important to have approval from the West for what is deemed to be the survival of the country. The policy of Western Europe towards minority Muslim and Africans is nothing to be proud of either. At least, the standard of living of Tibetans is improving and lifespan of ordinary Tibetans increases. They can have a choice to be part of economic boom in China or part of the failure of HI DL.

justrecently:
How do you equal:
1.(I just wonder how 250k of oversea Tibetans can take away 25% of landmass from China with population of 1.3 billions and nuclear weapons) TO ARROGANCE.
2.(Does 1.3 billions Chinese count to anything in this matter?) TO SELF PITY.
Your logic does not make sense at all.

Sing666:
my point is actually quite logical. You think because the Tibetans in question don't have much power, there is an obligation for them to shut up as it could "incite riots" (he forgets about 1.3 billions ordinary Chinese whose stomach got turned upside down after March riot - poor you). It is self-pity when people who are in power complain about things that go wrong under their control - and it reveals a lazy way of thought when they twist this conflict into a "Western" plot. India is no Western country, but respects the Dalai Lama. So do many other non-Westerners. Like it or not: the problem lies within the borders of the PRC, not outside.

I never told you to shut up. I am trying to point to you fundamental weak point of the so-called independent movement. You do not have the power to move China/Chinese. If oversea Tibetans really care about the well being of Tibetans inside China, they should work to help Tibetan Chinese to grow within the compound of China, not to break apart. Blaming China for the failure does not make Tibetans better beings than the Chinese. Every country has problems with their native populations from Canada, U.S., Australia, even India and Taiwan. I do not have any invested interest in this affair one-way or the other because I am a Canadian. I have witnessed our native people struggling over the year just as Tibetans. However, they never want to break the country apart because they understand they are better off being within Canada. Screaming and yelling make a good show. The responsibility to adjust always falls on the weaker side whether you like it or not. It is reality. I just pity oversea Tibetans being living in an unattainable dream. That could always be called stupidity. Of course, people has the right to behave stupidly. Stupid always does what stupids do.

The responsibility to adjust always falls on the weaker side whether you like it or not.
I see no obligation for the weaker to adjust to whatever degree the stronger may demand. That's something every Tibetan will have to decide him- or herself.
The reality is that many of them apparently don't want to give in, and that the Beijing leadership and its supporters take offense from that. Beijing can do what it thinks is right, but then, they should be sure enough themselves, and not demand applause for it from abroad.

As for unattainable dreams: I won't call such dreams stupid. If a dream is worth to be followed, it may be worth to be followed for generations.

"The responsibility to adjust always falls on the weaker side whether you like it or not.
I see no obligation for the weaker to adjust to whatever degree the stronger may demand. That's something every Tibetan will have to decide him- or herself"
Nobody can demand other to do anything, he/she does not want to do; not even HI DL can do that. It is the choice that individual has to make whether to prosper or to wither away.
There was a Canadian native who had a similar dream. The last time I met him, he was broke, drunk and lying on the street dying.
Look at the changes China has to make in the last 30 years to prosper. I have said enough on this subject. I am signing off. Bye with a lot of luck.

The Western fight for Tibet is certainly not about Human Rights it is all about weakening China. If they were concerned about Human Rights there would be a world-wide outcry with regard to the occupation of Iraqi and Afganistan. Tibetans under China have a better life that they ever had under the DL.