Contemplating 30 Years of Reform

Elliot don't have to ask Deng personally. He's got his answer already, if he cares to listen. It is "crossing the river by hanging onto the rocks."

It doesn't deserve me to put up with such flattery. I just know that many others within the CCP's former leadship were much far "opener" and wiser than Deng, such as Liu Shaoqi(刘少奇), Hu Yaobang(胡耀邦), Zhao Ziyang(赵紫阳),etc. who have never held the real political power, so they were persecuted and get rid of by some winners of political struggles, Liu by Mao, Hu and Zhao by Deng, who was titled "6.4 butcher"!!

As for the outstanding characters outside the CCP, unassailably, there are an enormous of amount are greater and more ingenious than that biggest dictator.

I don't think Deng had a chance to democratize China at that time even he had the initiative. Sometimes, when people call a guy dictator, that doesn't necessarly mean he can do something decisive
or he seize the real power. Actually, dictatorship is the weakest, the most vulnerable and helpless system in its piers. Even Deng, the dictator at his time, was actually by some high brass in military.

Deng already gave China a deep-rooted ecomonic reform, just think about the situation and the naiveness in people's mind, you will understand no one could carry out a political reform simultaneously without bringing China back into an endless spiral of chaos and civil war. I think the now is the time, in Hu's tenure, let democracy come. Hope so.

For the "6.4 butcher", whom he really is remain to be seen, no one really know who gave the order to kill. Maybe Li Peng, or even some fascist commander? 6.4 let us hear people's voice and even from some dissident and sympathizer in the army(we do know the local armyman didn't do that). 6.4 is a tragedy, a case that could have been"harmonized" by tear gas. Why tanks and machine guns? Anyway, 6.4 shows the Chinese the atrocity and weakness of dictatorship. Someday, CCP will find it's hard to control the army, and the armyman find the CCP worthless when commie's obscurantism is outdated.

conscienceinchina john2008obama: You two get the meaning of "opening" and "develop" all wrong.

Opening is "Opening Chinese people's wallet and bank accounts", "develop" is developing the wealth of the CCP cadres by reaching into Chinese people's wallets and bank accounts.

I don't think Liu, Hu and Zhao can compete in that arena.

John2008obama: You are severely looking down on what the dictators can do. They can either push their countries into democracy or keep them staying in the middle ages. Seeing what Jiang Jingguo(蒋经国) has done in Taiwan, and what Kim Jong-Il(金正日) is doing in North Korea, both the two extremes on different sides will surprise you. The dictators can do everything if they want.

"Deep-rooted ecomonic reform" is shrinked, remaining the putrid, dominating state-monopoly.

Regarding your viewpoint that China had no condition to boost political reform at Deng's time, I have some different opinions: On the eve of "89' 6.4", the Soviet Union disintegrated, as well as the Eastern Europe drastically changed. At the same time the democratic and freedom thought in China were all the rage, the desire in pursuit of changes were terribly eager, and the indignation of the people caused by the corruption has reached its top. The democracy movement was on the verge of breaking out. So this country-wide, unprecedented movement erupted. At that time what needed Deng to do was to follow the public opinion, instead of ordering to fire! China has lost the only chance to Change peacefully. He, Deng, "Changed the world"!!!!

The now is NOT the time! The last few years the atmosphere of change, both in economy and politics, is the worst since the so-called "reform and opening". Such stories are "as long as a large roll of cloth". Maybe we will get on with such discussion later.